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    95 ZRT 800 problems, electrical? help!~

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    • Member since
      September, 2005
    95 ZRT 800 problems, electrical? help!~
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:39 PM

    OK guys here we go. long winded but please help! ok i have this 95 ZRT 800 that i've been riding. its got 1200 miles on it and ran like a top until i went to michigan. it was in a nasty wet ice/sleet storm with no cover on it and ever since has not run right.  i put 60 miles on it and it ran sweet before the trip.

     

    the carbs have been gone through twice now. it has compression and spark, and the fuel pump works and primes easily still. however it will not run. when i start it, it will start on the second pull in the garage. it seems to struggle to idle and the second i touch the gas it dies. if i let it struggle to idle and touch the brake it dies as well, and the brake light does not light up. i checked all the grounds on the engine and chassis i could find and cleaned them all, they seem to be fine. it has spark, but it almost seems as if its too weak, or the timing is off, or something of that matter.

     

    the only wiring issues i can find with the sled are on the carbs. there are connectors coming from each carb to a connector on the harness, i have no idea what they are for. it has a cable choke and they are round slide carbs. the connector was twisted and two wires are showing bare. the center carb connector is corroded and doesnt look like it makes contact. so i guess my question is.... what do the wires going to the carbs do on these old dinosaurs? would it affect anything with the CDI box? i don't understand how it can have spark but no brake light, and hitting the brake makes the sled die. help!

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      August, 2005
    Posted by Blaine on Friday, January 08, 2010 5:17 AM

    SOunds like you have an issue in your handlebar switches somewhere. I have also heard of shorted out hand warmers ect...causing this, An easy way to verify the problem is in your switches/handlebars is to unplug the 4 prong plug coming from your stator that contains the 2 yellow wires. Use a jumper wire and connect the 2 NON-yellow wires together. This completes the circuit on your ignition and you can start the sled up. Start it and see if it runs good now. If it does, then the 1st thing you need to do is bypass the TSS & kill switch. There is a 3 prong connector under the handlebars down the steering shaft just a bit @ about the point where your shroud is located that has your key switch on it. Unplug that 3 prong plug and use a jumper wire and connect the 2 outside connectors together. This completes the circuit (you have a closed loop system) and bypasses the TSS and kill switch. Start it up and try it again. If it still spits and sputters bypass the tether switch. Just take the wires off of the back of the tether and splice them together. Even if it ends up being shorted out hand warmers ect... you should bypass all 3 of these handlebar switches anyways because they are prone to failure. You now just use the key to shut it off. If you unplug the 4 prong connector with the 2 yellow wires and jump it like I mentioned before and it still runs like ***, then you have an issue with your stator, cdi, coils or possibly trigger assuming that there are no shorted wires anywhere. Try the bypassing instructions and report back.

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    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Friday, January 08, 2010 6:31 PM

    ok going to try this tonight i'll report back. thanks for the input!

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Friday, January 08, 2010 7:20 PM

    tried bypassing the 3 wire connector at the shroud. it has no spark that way. plug it back in and i have spark. i'm going to try at the stator. if it has spark, how can it be a switch?

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Friday, January 08, 2010 7:44 PM

    little update. i tried the jumper at the stator. i had spark there, but it still wouldnt run for more than about ten seconds at a time. this is getting frustrating. it has fuel spark and compression. it will only fire about every tenth pull or so. if i let it sit for a long time and try again it will start and struggle to run and once i hit the gas it will die. anyone want a yard ornament?

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      May, 2007
    Posted by GrassCat31 on Friday, January 08, 2010 9:53 PM

    Try this for an experiment, just because you think your getting gas doesn't mean your are for sure. I've had a weird problem like this before. 

    fill a squeeze bottle with gas.  squirt some gas in the carbs while wide open, release throttle, start sled, once the sled starts continue squirting gas into the carbs and see if the motor will continue to run. Report back

    • Member since
      August, 2005
    Posted by Blaine on Saturday, January 09, 2010 5:57 AM

    You need to see if it is a spark or fuel issue. As previously stated, put a little gas in the carbs or right down the cylinder and see if it fires right up. If you're not getting enough fuel it should start right up as long as you don't put too much in and flood it. If it still doesn't start very well and it may be even worse trying to start it, then you have a weak/intermitten spark issue. Did you measure the stator specs yet?

    Here are your specs:

    White to Green (Large Coil) 450 ohms White to Black (Coils in Series) 470 ohms Green to Black (Small Coil) 20-30 ohms

     

    and here is how to test it:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzz2NZiw3fk

     

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    • Member since
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    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:58 PM

    i just had it running for a solid two minutes. any time i touch the gas it will die, and if i pull the brake lever it brings the idle down about 300 solid rpm. it seems like its a spark issue. the only bad wire on the whole sled is the connector for the center carb, which is corroded and broken. i read somewhere that it's a trigger wire for the CDI box? that can't be good.

     

    adding fuel used to be necessary to get the thing to start, like the fuel pump had to be primed or something. now adding gas does nothing. it runs the best when its half choked and quarter throttle, but it never seems to come alive. it must have a bad stator or something. i'll get an ohm meter and see if it's within spec

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      August, 2005
    Posted by Blaine on Sunday, January 10, 2010 6:01 AM

    LittleboyBlueRoom

    i just had it running for a solid two minutes. any time i touch the gas it will die, and if i pull the brake lever it brings the idle down about 300 solid rpm. it seems like its a spark issue. the only bad wire on the whole sled is the connector for the center carb, which is corroded and broken. i read somewhere that it's a trigger wire for the CDI box? that can't be good.

     

    adding fuel used to be necessary to get the thing to start, like the fuel pump had to be primed or something. now adding gas does nothing. it runs the best when its half choked and quarter throttle, but it never seems to come alive. it must have a bad stator or something. i'll get an ohm meter and see if it's within spec

     

    Sounds like electrical. The trigger wire for the cdi goes to the stator housing above your flywheel. Any wires going to your carbs have to do with your TSS switch. If you have the TSS bypassed you don't have to worry about that wire. Check your stator and also check you coils by pulling out the plugs and pulling the sled over and checking to see if one plug has bright blue spark and the other 2 are yellow.

    Wanted: Dead Arctic Cat Stators. All Types. PM Me.
    • Member since
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    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Sunday, January 10, 2010 12:23 PM

    all the spark is blue and bright. the newest thing i noticed now is i can go out and start the sled in the garage, no choke, no throttle, and it will struggle to idle at about 400 rpm and it'll do that endlessly. any time i try to bring up the rpm it will die. seems like a weak stator or something maybe? can that happen?

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      August, 2005
    Posted by Blaine on Monday, January 11, 2010 5:36 AM

    Have you measured your stator ohms yet?

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    • Member since
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    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Monday, January 11, 2010 4:08 PM
    i just got an ohm meter. i'll report this evening with what i find. thanks for the advice so far!

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Saturday, January 16, 2010 2:52 PM

    my stator wires are not green,black, and white.  it has two yellows, one black, and one white i believe. this is the four wire connector coming from the stator housing.

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:05 PM

    nevermind i was looking at the other connector coming from the stator.

    all the ohm readings check out for the stator. its got good spark from waht i can tell.

     

    i havent looked at the trigger for the stator, would it be possible that the sled won't run over 500 ish rpms because the pickup for the stator is corroded? it starts first pull and idles at like 500 rpm but any time i touch the gas it dies or bogs. fuel system is clean and seems to be fine. fuel pump is priming fuel. running out of things that could be wrong! oh and compression is 150 across the board.

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:29 PM

    one more update i have tried to get the trigger wire off the block where it mounts but the screws are rusty i can't get one of them off. tested it at the two wire connector it's showing 180 ohms is that the correct number?

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      August, 2005
    Posted by Blaine on Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:12 PM

    Trigger ohms are 175 so 180 is ok. Besides if you have spark your trigger is working. Did you bypass your TSS/trigger/tether yet?

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    Posted by jackpot on Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:29 AM

    disconnect all electrical leaving from stator housing

    clean and dry but sounds like throttle switch or bad ground

    try jumper from recoil bolt to frame

    • Member since
      August, 2005
    Posted by Blaine on Sunday, January 17, 2010 10:55 AM

    Here is my handy dandy check sheet.

     

    Closed Ignition: old style ignition. Primarily Pre-1998.A "Closed" ignition means that the wiring needs to have a closed circuit in order to run. If the connection to the switches; key, kill, tether, throttle safety switch, etc.. is interrupted there will no longer be power to the ignition system and spark will cease. With the "Closed" system if a connector comes loose or a wire gets cut the spark will stop until the wiring is repaired completing the circuit again. All Cats 1997 and earlier run a closed ignition, with the exception of the 1997 ZR 580 that is open ignition.Diagnosing no spark, weak spark or intermittent spark issuesThe first thing you want to do is see if it an issue in the switches/handlebars or if the issue is in the primary ignition components like the stator, cdi, coils, trigger coil or possibly plugs, plug wires or plug caps.
    1. The first thing you want to do is take the spark plugs out of the cylinder heads, put the spark plugs in the spark plug boots and lay them on a cylinder head bolt so they are grounded. Make sure the plugs are not near the spark plug holes when you pull it over.
    2. Pull the recoil rope and check the spark at the plug. Is there spark at each spark plug? Is the spark blue (indicating a strong spark) or is it yellow (indicating a “weak” spark).
    3. The next step is pretty much the same if you had no spark or a weak spark. On the “Closed” ignition you unplug the 4-prong connector containing the 2 yellow wires. This 4-prong connector sends the power to the lights, hand warmers and tachometer. When you unplug this 4-prong connector you need to put a wire connecting the 2 “non yellow” wires together in the connector. This completes the electrical circuit which is needed to check for spark. By putting this jumper wire between the 2 non yellow wires you are bypassing all of your switches (Throttle Safety Switch, Kill, tether ect..) and all of your lights, hand warmers ect..in your handlebars. Pull the recoil over and see if you have spark or if the previous yellow weak spark is now blue. Carbureted models can be started and run with this 4-prong connector unplugged and the jumper wire in it but you won’t have lights ect..as mentioned before. If you have an EFI, you can only check for spark and it will not start or run with it unplugged. You need it plugged in to power your fuel pump.
    4. If you had no spark and by unplugging the 4-prong connector and using the jumper wire you now have spark, that tells you that you have something shorted out in your switches like the tether, throttle safety switch or kill switch. If you had weak spark and now have blue spark it also tells you that you have a short with one of your switches. Again likely culprits are the TSS, tether or kill switch. There is a 3 prong connector in your handlebars that if you unplug and jump the 2 outside prongs it will bypass your kill and TSS switch and you will only be able to start and turn off your sled with the key. The 3 prong connector is usually not by the handlebars next to where you put your hands but rather just a little bit down the steering shaft about at the point where the console containing the key switch is located. If you’re not sure which connector it is, just follow the group of wires out of the right handlebar area where the TSS and Kill switch are located down to where the plug is located. There are a few other plugs by the handlebar on the right side by the thumb throttle, but they contain yellow wires and are for your hand warmers and thumb warmer. You also need to bypass the tether. You can just cut the wires in the back of the tether and splice the wires together which "completes" the circuit and bypasses the tether.
    5. If after unplugging the 4-plug switch and using the jumper wire you still do not have spark or the spark continues to look weak this tells you that the problem is in the major ignition components like the stator, coils, cdi, spark plugs, spark plug wires or trigger coil.
    6. The first thing to check are the connections from the stator to the cdi. Make sure all connections are free of moisture, are tight and use dielectric grease on it. Check the ground. You should have a ground wire coming from your stator and your CDI/ECU box. Make sure the grounds are clean, tight and that the ground wires are not broken. Sometimes the ground wire is pinched and broken inside the eyelet connection and is making only intermittent if any connection. Some older model Arctic Cats have the ground up closer to the handle bars on what some would consider the “firewall” of the sled and they are notorious for rusting/corroding out badly.
    7. If all of the connections are solid and the ground looks good then you have to start electrically checking components. Check your manual to be sure what your specific specs are for testing the trigger. View my “testing a pulser/trigger coil” video link in my signature to see how to test it. It is very easy and quick to test. The frustrating part about the trigger coil is that it can test good, but still be bad.
    8. Next you want to test the stator itself. View my “How to test a stator” video link in my signature to see how to do it.
    9. If you have no spark and your trigger tests ok and your stator tests ok then we’re looking at a possible bad CDI box There is no real good way to test the CDI other than swapping the box out with a known good CDI box.
    10. If you have continue to have no spark/weak spark and your trigger tests ok and your stator tests ok then we may be looking at a secondary coil issue. The coils can have a couple of issues with them. The first thing you want to do is make sure the spark plug caps are on tight. They just screw on and off the spark plug wire. Many times the best thing to do as long as your wires are long enough is to unscrew the spark plug caps, trim a ½ inch off the end of the wire and then screw the spark plug cap back on. Also, you can unscrew the wire from the coil itself and do the same thing. Trim off about a ½ inch and screw it back on the coil. I had 2 sets of coils go “bad” on my sled and come to find out it was just the spark plug wires were a bit warn at their ends and after I trimmed them and screwed them back together they ran perfect. This condition usually causes a miss. My triple coils showed 1 spark plug with extraordinary blue spark and the other 2 plugs were weak and yellow-ish in color. Be warned though that I did have one wire that would not unscrew from a coil no matter how hard I tried to turn it and I ended up just tearing the spark plug wire. Also, always check the spark plug gap and set it to the correct specifications for that plug. As far as putting the coil wires back on here is a general rule of thumb for Cats:
    Most sleds fire all the plugs at the same time, multiple times per revolution. A twin will fire both wires twice each revolution, a triple three times (once per 120 degrees because every 120 degrees one of the pistons is at TDC). One of the pulses fires the plug to ignite the fuel/air mix, the other times the pulses are "lost" as the plug fires with the piston not ready for the fuel to burn. That prevents having to have a complex distributor of some kind to route the electricity to the cylinder that needs it. On those types of ignitions, firing order (which spark plug wire goes on which spark plug) is not important.11. Specificly on Battery EFI sleds here is another thing to check. This was found on a 1996 EXT EFI: There can be a bad relay on the back of the ecu. There are 2 of them back there 1 for the spark and 1 for the fuel pump. 12. Also, bad reeds on a sled will cause it to back fire and run poorly acting like it is an electrical issue.13. Sled won’t shut off condition: I have seen a few things cause this. First off it is usually a bad ground/broken ground wire. Sometimes it is moisture in the connector from the stator to the CDI. I disconnected my TSS/Kill switch the day my kill switch got moisture in it and my sled wouldn’t shut off. You could have a cdi with an internal short. A bad stator has caused a machine to not shut off.14.Other issues that I have seen/read that have caused a no spark/bad running  issue:
    1. Guy bought a used sled with the wrong flywheel on it.
    2. Frayed wires somewhere in the wiring harness or under the seat were causing a short
    3. Guy said sled was only running on one cylinder. He removed one spark plug wire and it didn’t effect the way the sled ran. His low side coil on his stator read 360 ohms and it should have measured 450 ohms. His low side coil was dying.
    4. 96 ZRT would run like *** if the carbs weren't synced right
    5. After I replaced the trigger coil last year, I did not route the red/white wire good (Wire coming from the stator to the CDI). It laid against the crankshaft, rubbed the insulation off and exposed 1 tiny strand of wire! I cleaned the wire and put 2 shrink tubes on it. Then RE-ROUTED the wire to fix it.
    6. Hood harness was routed between rewind/stator housing and frame and had 4 wires smashed. Repaired wires and runs perfect.
    7. Got it running again tapped the ECU and died. Pulled the ECU cover off and found some corrosion
    8. I had a 580 that did not spark all the time and it was a bad ground wire from the ECU/CDI box. The factory has them grounded through the steering column support which is bolted to the chassis and over time the bolts get rusted and it loses its ground.
    9. Bolt for the recoil cup broke off and hit the trigger coil, bent the bracket slightly and gave it too much airgap
    10. Oil injection turned up too high
    11. Fuel Lines hooked up backwards
    12. I once saw a guy who had just swapped out motors and the jetting was way too lean. The sled would start and idle but if you pinned the throttle the sled would bog and quit running. By using the choke we were able to determine that it ran better when you hit the throttle and after jetting up it ran good.
          

     

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    • Member since
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    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:01 PM

    it has good spark no matter what. i've tried the jumper and it makes no difference. running out of ideas. its got fuel, compression and spark, but it won't come above an idle.

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      January, 2010
    Posted by way2crazy4u on Monday, January 25, 2010 7:47 AM

    Im new to this forum but ive read everything i had almost the same issue as you IE sleet and freezing rain. my sled would start right up and idle all day but as soon as i hit the gas it would die. i took my sled in and found out i had a cracked fuel line (sucking more air then fuel) and water in my gas. about 200.00 later it was fixed. i hope this will help you out.

    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Monday, January 25, 2010 10:55 PM

    i did put some iso heet in the tank but i might try siphoning out all the gas and checking the fuel output at each carb because it almost feels like its just emptying out one or two of the bowls causing it to lose a cylinder. thanks for the help so far guys its greatly appreciated

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Friday, January 29, 2010 4:03 PM

    ok guys little update here. i went to look at it yet again and after being in the cold garage for a week or two and not touching it, it won't start. i pulled all three gas lines and i seem to have fuel pressure for all of them. however i am going through the carbs again more thuroughly and realized that the plunger for the choke on the mag and pto side are both stuck in the carb, but the choke lever still works as normal, so my guess is the chokes on those two carbs are stuck in the "on" position. this would probably explain how it would flood so easily this spring, and the issues with running. i'm going to siphon out the gas tank (possibly water in the gas) and try to get these carbs apart and clean them all up once more. wish me luck lol

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

    • Member since
      September, 2005
    Posted by LittleboyBlueRoom on Friday, January 29, 2010 7:21 PM

    fixed mostly. i had to delete the choke and force the plungers for the chokes down and take the cable off. so no choke for now

    04 ZR900 sno-pro. 136'd set on asphalt. 10.85@116 current best.

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