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    800 XCR Clutching/Gearing Questions

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    • Member since
      September 2006
    800 XCR Clutching/Gearing Questions
    Posted by scoob on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:06 PM

    I have a ported 01 800 XCR that I have been playing with and may have fallen completely off the path, but here goes.

     Looking at gearing up 25/39 or 25/38 and going to 56/34, 56/32 or 54/32 full progressive helix to provide more efficient cruising, provide a decent launch yet and finish STRONG.....

    Anybody ever go this route?

    Also willing to purchase a couple of used helix to play with in trying to achieve the above. 

    Thoughts?

    Thanks

    • Member since
      September 2005
    Posted by 1000cc on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:00 PM

    I think you are looking at a gear and helix combo that requires much more power than you have.

    If you want to cruise and get mph I would keep the gears around 39/24 and run a 50-34 helix maybe a little more.I had a similar sled but never pushed the helix too high.If you drop the gear down to 1.75 ratio you need lots of traction and you will loose top end mph.It all depends on what you want.Unfortunately there isn't a 1 for all set up.

    1200 cc stroker

    • Member since
      September 2006
    Posted by scoob on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:24 PM

    1000cc

    I think you are looking at a gear and helix combo that requires much more power than you have.

    If you want to cruise and get mph I would keep the gears around 39/24 and run a 50-34 helix maybe a little more.I had a similar sled but never pushed the helix too high.If you drop the gear down to 1.75 ratio you need lots of traction and you will loose top end mph.It all depends on what you want.Unfortunately there isn't a 1 for all set up.

    What if I run a smaller primary spring too?  I currently pull a Dalton 52/36 with a Polaris Black secondary to 8500 calibrated consistently running 23/39 and 8300 running 24/39.

    • Member since
      July 2005
    • From: Upstate New York
    Posted by White Lightning on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:12 AM

    I have a '01 XCR and with some modded - Im currently running 64g w/ 38X helix. Not sure what gearing is in it as I bought this sled last year in the spring. I just want to do some testing on it to see what it does and so far, being out a few times, this sled ROCKS.

    Changing gearing from 24/39 to 23/39, shouldnt affect the revs. At 8,300revs with 24/39, should give you 109.7mph while 23/39 give you 105.1 at 1:1 ratio.

     

    LightningWLLightning

    The AFTERBURNER!!!

    • Member since
      September 2006
    Posted by scoob on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:38 PM

    I have found that gear ratios do effect rpm's if you change nothing else.

    • Member since
      July 2005
    • From: Upstate New York
    Posted by White Lightning on Monday, February 1, 2010 2:11 PM

    Not if you changed from 24 top to 23 top, it doesnt change on my tach on my sled - Ive done it before. Im not saying it wont affect but if you would to change like 23 / 40, maybe that might show something or the more you change to higher ratio number, it may show a bit more.

    Changing helix will show affected revs. DEPENDING on what ported your sled is, and if its trail-ported, my guess would be your best rev should be aiming at 8,500. If you drop in 56/34 and change to 56/32, that will increase revs 200/300 higher. 56/32 - 54/32, 56 is a quicker upshift than the 54. Its the finishing angle like xx/34 - xx/32 will give you the different in the top end revs. WL

    The AFTERBURNER!!!

    • Member since
      April 2007
    Posted by madcow on Friday, February 12, 2010 11:20 AM

    with a piped and ported xcr i ran 25-38 on the trail and it was a blast. had no problems in trenching, that gearing is by far not to tall for big smooth trails and lakes.

     i ran 10-64's with a stock polaris spring, 38x hot seat and silver blue in the 3 rd hole i beleive and spun 8600-8700 rpm.

     

    gearing can affect rpms of clutching. if you make a run, then did a drastic change on gears you might see a 100-200 rpm drop.  these tachs leave a lot to be desired though, can you really tell me that you are running 8200 or 8300 rpm? pretty grey area there.  on a digital tach you will see changes a lot faster and more accurate.

    if god wanted an 1000 twin to be fast he would have made it a triple.
    • Member since
      December 2005
    Posted by jfaub63 on Friday, February 12, 2010 12:45 PM

    i have a few questions first: what rpm do you think you make peak power?  what length track,  how many and what type of studs(trail or chisel) and how deep of lug are you running ,  what is the maximum distance you are intending to run and what conditions  shaved ice?  normal trail?  deep snow?  which is more important  -all out acceleration or back shifting?  are you looking for a drag race set up  or a top end mph setup?  how much hp do you think you are making?  there  are lots of proven setups out there just need to know what you are working with.       thanks 

    • Member since
      September 2006
    Posted by scoob on Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:04 PM

    Legit 180-185 HP - Porting should make HP all the way to 85/8600.  121"  - 1.25" lug track - 192 trail studs -  normal trail some ice conditions 1500' or more and looking for acceleration and topend mph.

     Thanks

    • Member since
      December 2005
    Posted by jfaub63 on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:26 AM

    with a 1.25 track i would gear no more than 23/40 which would be about 106 at 1:1 and about 115 under good conditions alowing it to  shift past 1:1.  120/320 primary-  no need to engage higher with a 1.25 you will always have some spin out of the gate(as compared to short track with chisels).  start at 10-62's-10-64's,  i like the hotseat weights and lightening up the tips  but than can get costly,  in the secondary would run an aggressive 52-36 , maybe a 52-38(hotseat 38x) on fast conditions like hard pack with a erlandson black in the second hole. i would not try to overgear to much do to the fact the 1.25 is going to try and pack alot of air.  make sure the front mount holes in the rear suspension have been moved down 1 hole.    good luck  jf

    • Member since
      May 2006
    • From: lac-st-jean,quebec province
    Posted by scramblered on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:23 PM

    i run 22-40 since few years yet and the clutch are fully shifted and belt climb to about 1/8 on top of primary,all depend on how much power you have,track lenght,track lug length and how deep is the snown under your sled,more snow will need lower gearing and less helix angle while less snow will take more gears and helix angle and offer more harder acceleration and top speed,depend on how cold the temp is also,a triple tend always to run rich so colder,harder packed snow will deliver more performance,as for spring the silver/blue is the best suited for the secondary.

    -00 hot seat race mods/ flannery ports XCR 800 VES

    • Member since
      September 2006
    Posted by scoob on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:22 PM

    IMO 23/40 is not enough gear.....Stock gearing will be faster (not quicker) and I want faster.  I concur on the primary, but again believe both 52/36 and 52/38 are too aggressive.  I currently have 24/40 gears, Polaris almond primary spring, EPI 54/36 helix with Silver/Blue in 3rd hole, 62 gr Polaris weights and can pull the targeted rpms in a very short (but not measured distance)  I can add more weight to ensure shift out, but the mph still won't be there.  I am looking for legit 120+ mph in the distance of 2000' or less.  I have also went back to a 1.00 track and 96 studs.  I believe I need to be at 24/38 or 25/38 with a helix like 54/32 to get out of the hole and keep rpm's up.  Thoughts?

    • Member since
      May 2006
    • From: lac-st-jean,quebec province
    Posted by scramblered on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:29 PM

    I  agre on the  gearing(24/40),i guess it is the faster combinations of top speed and incredible midrange pull out ,i used to used those on my titanium cranked modified first xcr 800 engines,was a blat like the winds to rides,i still and always used titanium clutch spring tough,thundershift cam arm wight only and hot seat helix,a 52/38 on the xcr rrun pretyy strong  hard and is very easy to tune,with 16:1 domes heads 112 octanes nothing can match the response like a DFI or clean fire engines,tempa flow a must have on those motor and airbox modification,CDI reprogrqaming is the best bangs for the bucks if you don't want to changes anything,respond to mods amazingly,case porting then cylinders is the most gains on that motors,straigth out pipes after then,max hp output,can scare you a the thumb in a hurry,just need new frame ans chassis for ultimate top speed and acceleration.

     

    -00 hot seat race mods/ flannery ports XCR 800 VES

    • Member since
      July 2005
    • From: Upstate New York
    Posted by White Lightning on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:02 AM

    24/40 is a old XC700s gearing and with that set up, at 1:1 ratio on the XCR8 is at about 108mph - full shift would be 121mph. With 96 studs - youre not going to hook off the line well especially with the XC7's stock gearing. Stock gearin for XCR is 24/39 and with 24/38 or 25/38 - you may have to go with either r12 (50/36) to see if the revs stays up there or, maybe try r11 (50/34). You dont need a starting angle like 54/32 because of lack of studs and it will cause you to spin more plus with 32 finishing angle, you will be overreving. WL

    The AFTERBURNER!!!

    • Member since
      December 2005
    Posted by jfaub63 on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:09 PM

    24/40 at 8550    (he said peak power at 8500-8600)=110mph at 1:1 and 123 @ 12percent overdrive

    • Member since
      September 2006
    Posted by scoob on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 10:05 PM

    Don't want to rely on overdrive - it's getting geared up.  I need to find a 38 gear.  I actually like the feel of the 54/36 I have right now when it comes to back shifting - an r11 might be an interesting run and I believe I have one.  I am also going to soften the start rate of the primary to the 130 range if I can find one.  Low engagement with low initial helix should keep me from losing too much grunt out of the hole without spinning.  I think the answer is to gear up until I can't pull it or start losing mph and not give up low-mid range.  Ah - the best of all worlds.  I'm thinking 56/32 with tall gears, maybe even 56/30.

    • Member since
      May 2006
    • From: lac-st-jean,quebec province
    Posted by scramblered on Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:18 PM

    all depend on the power curve of your pipe,i mean a 56/32 or 30 sound like the craziest clutch setup i heard on a xcr 800,where the primary belt climb up? what rpm for how long long,anyway wide power curve all depend how much it does have and what traction you can have,it guess the best bang for the buckes is a big wheels kit to get more traction without need to strched the skid and track and make some loose some weight and rotating mass out of it,i run the carbon fiber wheels,make all the difference.happy end of season...

     

    -00 hot seat race mods/ flannery ports XCR 800 VES

    • Member since
      September 2006
    Posted by scoob on Monday, March 1, 2010 11:06 PM

    Mild update - I ordered a 56/32 and 54/30 but they are not here yet.  I tried R12, R11, EPI 38S, R8 and straight 34 with current 24/40 gearing.  Against a known sled - the 54/36 IMO is still better than all of them.  I also went to a Polaris Dk Blue to lower engagement with no noticeable difference other than lower engagement.  The straight 34 seemed to want to pull more mph (out of room where testing), but considerably slower getting there.  I am excited about where I think this is headed and hope I get time to finish.  The current setup is quick, but taller gears going in tomorrow and am leaving the 54/36 in place to start.

    • Member since
      August 2005
    • From: Jenison, MI
    Posted by MBR46 on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 3:34 PM

    96 studs is not even close to enough in a 600 let alone an xcr 8.  with a 56 you open faster and load the motor harder that is a high helix to pull with that.  these guys are right with the helix.  50-36 or 52-36 helix with at silver blue, i liked the blue orange.  if you want 120 take the studs out, if you want to win races hook it up.  good luck.....there are some guys that really know the xcr8's i would take their advise...

    Moylan Bros Racing

    • Member since
      May 2006
    • From: lac-st-jean,quebec province
    Posted by scramblered on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 9:41 PM

    all depend on pipe power curve and peak rpm point and what CDI box you have on place,i mean a reprogrammed cdi box on xcr 800 is a major secret power gains and with full mods is even better,msd coils and wires work best,i really never been anal on studs from day one i ride snowmobiles,the better advise is put a big wheels kit on it,8'' or 10'' rear idle wheels,hook up is instant and remove some rotating mass out,8'' carbon wheels is what i run and man what a blast to ride.

    -00 hot seat race mods/ flannery ports XCR 800 VES

    • Member since
      May 2006
    • From: lac-st-jean,quebec province
    Posted by scramblered on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 10:13 PM

    i guess you guys have find a clutch setup way more fine tune that what i heard some years ago,i mean  54/36 helix mean very torquey pipes or hard packed conditions with super cold temp not alot snow conditions and similar top end range,do youn have tried a 54/38 ,with top end pipes the 38 finish is perfect to grab the belt.alreay ran 24-40 gears was very good with very hard packed/iced straight fire lines trails,remember c to c clutch distance is critical for proper clutch setup,must fine tune your exhaust blue screw out also,to find the right exhaust ports holes to proper pipes peak rpm point,ran the bleu cap 1/8 out make motors to peak at 8600-to 8800 rpm.you can load motor alot different with the xcr 800 with simply a richer or leaner jetting,richer main load engine faster,so sometime you didn't really need a steeper helix to do best combo.

     

     

    -00 hot seat race mods/ flannery ports XCR 800 VES

    • Member since
      May 2006
    • From: lac-st-jean,quebec province
    Posted by scramblered on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 10:39 PM

    but nedless to say run a xcr 700 flywheel,with 800 stator and cdi,will you be impressed,removing the bolts washer remove some rotating mass also and work great.

     

    -00 hot seat race mods/ flannery ports XCR 800 VES

    • Member since
      April 2010
    Posted by billorais on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:16 PM

    the first thing you sould do before anything is get your sled to a dyno and find out what hp and rpms your sled peeks at and from there u sould be able to give your info to a clutch tech and he sould be able to set the sled up .we have two of the same sleds that we race on oval tracks that have completly differant clutch set ups because of rpm and hp are differant because of porting.that way you can have fun on you sled without distroying your motor trying to clutch it blind

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