Snowmobile Racing

Which would be more likely to draw your participation in?

A: Classing like Blackjack Racing does with Stock, Mod (no Sno-Pro or custom built sleds and 1 3/8 track max lug) Pro-Mod (all those excluded from Mod)

B: Classing like Togg, Stock and Mod (cut and dry either your stock or your mod no options)

Second question, What would say Toggenburg or even Song Mountain need to do to get a larger turnout of participants?

All comments are welcome and be aware the promoters of all these races do come on this forum and im sure they will take into consideration all comments too.

Justin

I like Dave Meneleys format better better than Toggs

  What you are currently doing is "fun". ISR Class format is the way to go if you want a "race". Which, albeit more confusing to the spectators, is a more fair and balanced way to run the classes. On the other side a lot of guys like racing their buddy and might not necessarily have the same "class" sleds for one reason or another. A 600 stocker really has no business running a 1000 stocker imo. The down side to doing a "race" format is not tech HAS to be 100% all the time or you think you got whiners now.....lol wait till you are pulling pipes off sleds for hours after the event is run to see if they are legal or not.  On the brighter side, a simple protest fee (say $200) USUALLY dissuades guys from just protesting because they got beaten.

  More entries = more promotion. If guys don't know, they don't go. Radio, papers, AmSnow, etc even TV if budget allows. Talk to the promoters of the snowcross events and how they draw "locals". The biggest thing? Money. People want to run for the loot. You can only be called King of the Hill so many times. I used to give Jerry *** about not even giving away a plaque or silly trophy to the winners - he started doing that & the event got bigger...........what's the next step? Money. If the events are successful and are making money for the club, then kick entry by $5 and pay back (or however it is feasable to do).  Again it goes back to my opening sentence: do you want it to be "fun run" or "race".

 Billy, Vince let me ask you guys since you have both been around the block with racing. Would you guys think it would be fair if as smaller steps to get into the Money side of racing for a Hill to offer say 100$ and a plaque to the winner of each class (dependant on a minimum attendance in each class)

In all honesty I like Daves set up with 100% cash back, 5$ fee for paperwork etc... the Hill or the Club putting the event on charges a small fee to enter the grounds and then for the Hill there is the food and bar to compensate for there time.

  Yes, that's a great way to give the winner that "little extra" for bringing his $20k or more race sled to your event.  Using Dave's format requires a lot more staff and policing, but is the next step as far as your race in concerned.

  Just a thought as they both are successful: Why not combine the two venues into a race series all winter? Use Dave's format and help from his race for yours, and vice versa. Run alternate weekends for 8 weeks or whatever. Then one big hoopla at the end of the year.  Swain as well. Track points.  If guys are racing for points and a reward at the end for doing so. (CNY Hillclimb Series Open Class CHAMPION) The racers should get involved as well and get an organization together like the snowcross guys did. DBA's are cheap.  Points could be kept record of, awards banquets, the whole nine yards - it all falls back on how big does everyone want it to be?  Mike Hills will be the first one to tell you, however, if you are looking to make money off snowmobile racing, you need your head checked. You do it for the love of the race.....and lose money. lol

  If you had an entire series dedicated all season long and different venues, it makes it FAR easier to get bigger sponsors on board than when it's a one shot deal.  I'm sure North Syracuse Lawn and Snow would like all the Arctic Cat and Ski-Doo racers to see their banners promoting their shop at every race all winter long.......you get the drift.

I will be honest if Togg didnt have the KOH I wouldnt even go at all.  I like Jerry and understand it is a fund raiser but they should really consider giving alittle bit back

 Yer obviously not doing any work today, Meatball, lets go break 55 a bit and let me slap that fighter pilot around. You plowed?

 .

i believe jerry's system is more effecient. he can run through a lot of sleds in a short time. no need for a board and numbers on sleds just line em up in class and run. it always stays organized at togg. i do feel togg needs to start giving something back.

I've been to togg only once but I have to say they got through the classes pretty fast

as for class structure I like Blackjack's the best for sure, & they get through the classes very fast as well & usually groom the hill once or twice during. the whole thing is just really well organized.

Now if one of these groups would add some jumps to the racing, they would be my favorite hands down!

no matter what though they all need to pay out some form of prize money IMO

Didnt realy like Blackjack's rules at first but feel very good about them and the way he run's his race now. I think it was awsome to come home with almost 600 bucks last weekend plus the woodys gift certificate. He realy does a great job and makes sure everyone is happy.                           Togg is also a great race and jerry does a great job. But what would it hurt to take a 150.00 bucks from each class.  100.00 and a plaque for first and 50.00 and the plaque for second to go to the winners. We as racers bring the show to togg we make the club and the hill alot of money and a little back would not hurt a bit. I am sure they can afford it.

everyone has thier own reasons for liking or disliking the rules, depending how they affect you. example: at first I liked the Blackjack rules because the trail mod class favored my sled, now that the sleds have to have proof or reg, it's no longer good for me. what I don't like is people complaining can get rules changed. 

 hill drags are a different animal so ISR classification is not necessarily the answer but it would be nice to have one set of rules accross the board so we can setup our sleds accordingly

justin did you go to song.   and if how was it ?  my kid said that 15 -20 sled

Sunday's are tough, especially a night race...............

I prefer ISR rules

then there is no quessing you know what your sled is and doesn't change classification from race to race  

(track lug height changing you from stock to improved then making you go against sleds with imp engines. does that seem fair?)

need payout to get guys to travel whether we end up donating or not.

I like the idea of having a trail mod class and they definitely should require proof of registration, its for trail sleds and they should have current registrations. I do feel the lug height should be raised though, a lot of people run 1.5 - 1.75 inch tracks on their trail sleds and shouldn't be tossed into the "mod" class because of a deeper lug track. I know deeper lugs help but not as much as a 200+hp mod motor. Tog is a fund raiser for the Lafayette snowmobile club, offering a trail mod class will bring in a lot more of the everyday trail riders with some simple bolt on goodies. A good percentage of the sleds on the trails are modified in some manner, making them race in the "mod" class against full blown hill drag sleds is not right. Have you looked at the 800 mod class before at tog? There will be a former 800 open mod sno-x sled that has been long tracked and is still running in full race trim sitting next to a trail sled with an aftermarket single pipe. How is that fair for the average joe trail mod rider? I'm not against the guys who have full blown race sleds but make them race in their own class, not against lightly modded trail sleds. A lot of people don't race at tog because of this. Remember its a fundraiser for the club and is supposed to be something for local average joe club riders to want to attend and compete in, not just racers. Take it for what its worth but I talk to a lot of people about tog and song at the dealership I work at and the class break down comes up a lot.

to do 100% payback the club would have to make its money some other way...ie, charging admission...do the math..100 sleds x $ 20 = $ 2000..minus trophies...even with jumping classes ...say 200 sleds x $ 20 = $ 4000 minus trophies...insurance?...misc costs...if the club doesn't make money on it, the volenteers won't help...it takes alot of $5 spectators to make that money..... i personaly like the trail mod idea...more classes mean more more money made,more racers,more classes to jump to,but it will take more time to finish...maybe a set $ for class winners or sponsers for each class..do wish it could start earlier....i"m not as young as i think i am.