Snowmobile Racing

Who will be the 1st to put skis on a busa?

If you were unquestionably concerned about your drivers health you wouldnt put him on a 180mph sled,,,,I do agree with safety rules and structural integrity does not mean increased weight as ISR assumes.

I am not attacking, what you guys are doing is incredible, just my opinion and the weight issue is a sort spot with me, Great run keep it up.

 I have never understood the weight thing either. Why is it that if you add weight it suddenly makes your sled safer.When I was 140 lbs soaking wet I had to add 65lbs to my open mod to run heavy mod.guess where you can put 65 lbs on an Anderson?NOWHERE that makes a damn bit if difference in terms of safety nor does it slow them down enough that it would make any difference. I never did understand bolting 65 lbs of lead on what is basically a cookie sheet with a motor but what do I know i'm just a dumb mod guy

 For PS1000.....

 

Been there done that....See BUSAMOD

Ed Ensor owns the sled now and holds the fastest pass in NSSR history at 177 in 1000' on ice. Some people say he is maxed out and some say he wasnt even pushing it yet.......we'll see later this year. 

NSSR is going to have a invite only 1/4 mile event this year and that should be really interesting to see how the asphalt speeds and ice speeds compare.

For whatever thats worth....

the weight rule i want isn't designed to slow anyone down, just keep the structual integrity in the snowmobile, were alot heavier than most right now, and were still running the numbers, so its not about making us faster,  but when there is no weight rule, some people will take it to an extreme, now thats what you will be forced to do if you want to be competitive with them, some people really don't think of what would happen if..............................................,

my drivers life is worth more to me than a race, and i hope someone does't actually have to get killed for people to realize the razors edge of safety that they are playing with. they say an unsafe act can happen up to 300 times before someone actually gets hurt or killed, i,m thinking this class is approaching that number pretty fast, just think about it,   thats all  i'm saying,   jeff

 

jeff with the utmost respect i cant understand your thinking. the chassis you now put a claimed 600 hp was not designed structurally for anywhere near that amount of hp and the forces that come with it therefore IMO is really putting your drivers life at risk. The materials and components used are inadequate and would never be used or designed like they are in the construction of something designed for the huge horsepower you are putting out. Materials like the tube constructed today and assembled by qualifed person(s) are way safer.  The other side as you also said is the extreme guy who cuts lots of corners who may not have the budget and or contacts needed to build a safer design but I think that would be seen visibly quite easily and I think we have seen that. I think of the sleds I have seen lately there is the utmost care and design thought put into them and they are constructed by qualified persons who are not sacraficing quality for cost. They are lighter and considerably safer then OEM chasis putting way more power to them. This is my opinion only.

 

ptm  

i think this is were your not seeing what i'm saying, adding weight by bolting it in is a joke, that is not safe at all, it actually makes the sled less safe by straining what structure you currently have. i would like to see a stronger chassis in general, our stock sled may not have been designed for 600 hp, but it was designed for jumping and taking impacts. therefore it is very strong for what were doing with it. yamahas frame is very ridgid and well designed. i just don't want to have to try and take out anymore weight than we allready have, i will probably stop racing if it comes to that.   as for putting my driver on 180 mph sled, yes, it scares me alot, thats why i'm making this post. but he and i know this is the level the class is at, and these are the chances you take to do it, all i'm saying is lets not let it get more out of hand by having guys continually chop weight out of the sleds to the point were someone gets hurt. my thought are....if a weight limit is put on the sleds, then  the sled builders will beef up their chassis for the drivers safety, not just bolt in weight.  bolting in weight would defeat the whole purpose, but i understand what your saying, and i except the class for the rules presently in place.  jeff

Ed was running the chassis that was originally built by the sled owner. It was "fixed" by JC Chassis shop. He is currently building Ed at least 1 new chassis that should be much stronger, straighter, a little lighter and safer. I heard that Ed has a little over 600hp and was only using about 400hp on that 1000 foot run.

Rumor has it Marvelous Marv is also (building?) coming out with something new. Maybe a return of Jaws IIII.........

It is going to be a kickass time on Jan. 30th at Menomonie, Wi. I think you will see 200mph

Hey Iceman 700 your expecting big numbers in 1320 ft, LOL! At 200 mph that means your covering "almost" 300' per second, that extra 320' is going to get ate up fast for sure, not like up north with having a full 2000' to get things moving nicely and letting 'er eat. I do think realistically that you will see "high" 180's in 1320' or maybe someone might touch 190 possibly but that extra 320' is going to blow by like a blurr. Should be a fun day as you said though hopefully OSP, Simons CPR, Marv CCS, and Fast Ed will all be there to run that race. Right or wrong we will be pulling the extra weight off our full-body V4 sled just for that race and putting on another driver for our shot, as this sled will be 640 - 650 pounds w/ driver, so we'll be ready to run.

 Back to your post Jeff, very nice run and congrats, way to keep working with that sled! Enough of this Amsnow bitching session, we should all be turning wrenches and less punching keys. Only about 2-months away 'til we can all put the power to the ice and just see exactly where we all stand! Can't wait...Congrats again Jeff.

Iceman 700:

Ed was running the chassis that was originally built by the sled owner. It was "fixed" by JC Chassis shop. He is currently building Ed at least 1 new chassis that should be much stronger, straighter, a little lighter and safer. I heard that Ed has a little over 600hp and was only using about 400hp on that 1000 foot run.

Rumor has it Marvelous Marv is also (building?) coming out with something new. Maybe a return of Jaws IIII.........

It is going to be a kickass time on Jan. 30th at Menomonie, Wi. I think you will see 200mph

 

Iceman700,

Im going to just let that "fixed" remark go. That sled was a proto. It ran perfect. And I built the entire sled, not just "the chassis" 

Jeff

WANTED TO POST MY OPINION AGAIN ON THE WEIGHT THING, GRASS AND ICE RACING USE STUDS AND KEEP THE SLED HOOKED TO THE GROUND AND FOR THE MOST PART HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. SLICK TRACKS DONT STAY HOOKED VERY WELL WITH THE ULTRA LIGHT SLEDS AND THE VERY HIGH GEAR WHEN THEY DO LOSE TRACTION THEY CAN TURN LEFT OR RIGHT VERY EASILY HEADING DIRECTLY AT THE WALL, DOES NOT MATTER HOW RIDGID THE CHASSIS IS WHEN IT HITS THE WALL HEAD ON AT 170 PLUS. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN HELP THIS IS DOWN FORCE CREATED BY THE SLED WEIGHT OR SOME SORT OF WING/SPOILER CREATION. AS JEFF SAID WE ARE ALREADY RUNNING THE NUMBERS SO ITS NOT ABOUT THAT. WE ALL WANT TO KEEP ALL THE DRIVERS SAFE. (JUST SAYIN)

Come to Valdosta and you will be able to voice your opinion, at our meeting on Saturday evening. There has already been one suggestion to allow one pneumatic tire per side for better handling. Hopefully we will receive one before the race. Hope to see you there!

Dave Dunigan

Jeff & Dan congratulations on the quickest & highest MPH 1/4 mile pass ever on an asphalt snowmobile on a street night with marginal traction & spinning hard @ mid track. The only thing wrong was Dan forgot to tuck down or didn't have time? The other thing I noticed is you had a great 60 ft for that weight sled with a good old Proline ( not  one of the asphalt specialists magic suspensions) & you had a stock chassis ( not one of the great add on front ends that some have been rewelded & redone as they cracked or broke). I also agree with the point you are trying to make on structurally sound. ( I know you & 90% would think my lightweight wasn't sound by looks, but it was reenforced from the front arm mount up & had solid steering with NO play. The point somebody is making on heavy sleds getting bite & handling better is incorrect. Trust me I drive & my 650 lb Pro stocker is much more of a handfull when it spins on a slippery track than the lightweight sled & the Pro stocker is a hair longer which helps some. The heavy sled will spin as much as a light sled because it is pushing more weight. Stan you are correct on a properly done frame is a good idea, but look around at some of the so called professional asphalt chassis, I saw one the other day the driver sits so high & the motor is jacked up for transfer if he ever got it sideways he'd roll, my point I would take Jeff's sled anyday with Yamaha engineering or my Ck-3 which is extended over the neat looking high boy. One thing that really bothers me as an owner of 2  snowmobile performance shops who has put a lot of money in sponsoring dirt & asphalt racing this post & several other incidents, not only with me but other asphalt drivers & especially this post I have decided to take a close look at where my hard earned money goes. I hardly know Jeff or Dan, but I do know any true racer or enthusiast even his biggest competitor who ever that may be should have been on here congratulating them. People were even on here saying they could go faster if WOW. For the 5 or 6 true asphalt racers I respect what you do.  

Rich Daly

 rich, are you going to go to valdosta,ga TQ

I am not part of Ed's team just know some of the people involved.  As for hitting the 200 mark, Kurt Mohawk has run his sled 168mph in 1000ft and the extra 320 got him into the mid 180's with no extra hp boost, same as he was making in a 1000 feet. So Ed has run high 170's and if he adds another 150hp, another 14-20mph for the extra 320 feet. You are correct that it is an assumption and the air that he has to move to hit 200mph will be huge and he will cover the timing traps in just under a 1/4 second.......Will be a blast.

rich, 

 i really appreciate the kind words, especially coming from a person of your background and expertise.  i don't think most people realize, nor truely appreciate the sacrifices, made both financially and personally,  that it takes to reach these goals....i was very excited to have set the 178.5 mph record at the am snow shoot-out, and for amsnow  not to even have it acknowledged in their article, or even mention the mph record in a post was a huge let down for me....as far as i'm concerned....if you have a video and a time slip, post it, its a record in my book. because i did everything right at the amsnow shoot-out and got nothing.  at this time i don't know if i will bother going next year, nothing against jamie bellman, he is a stand up guy, i appreciate the effort he puts into the race, and i respect him very much, but for the others who made the decision to squash my record,  they just kinda wrecked my veiw of the prestige and crediblity that goes with going to the martin race, i don't have to drive to michigan to run a number.. 

and even if they decided not to report the mph record part of the race, as was stated to me by am snow...,  a snowmobile going nearly 180 mph in the 1/4 isn't newsworthy???,

thanks again. jeff 

Simons CPR 2:

rich, 

 i really appreciate the kind words, especially coming from a person of your background and expertise.  i don't think most people realize, nor truely appreciate the sacrifices, made both financially and personally,  that it takes to reach these goals....i was very excited to have set the 178.5 mph record at the am snow shoot-out, and for amsnow  not to even have it acknowledged in their article, or even mention the mph record in a post was a huge let down for me....as far as i'm concerned....if you have a video and a time slip, post it, its a record in my book. because i did everything right at the amsnow shoot-out and got nothing.  at this time i don't know if i will bother going next year, nothing against jamie bellman, he is a stand up guy, i appreciate the effort he puts into the race, and i respect him very much, but for the others who made the decision to squash my record,  they just kinda wrecked my veiw of the prestige and crediblity that goes with going to the martin race, i don't have to drive to michigan to run a number.. 

thanks again. jeff 

very sad, but true right there! Very nice passes to say the least

I am not part of Ed's team just know some of the people involved.  As for hitting the 200 mark, Kurt Mohawk has run his sled 168mph in 1000ft and the extra 320 got him into the mid 180's with no extra hp boost, same as he was making in a 1000 feet. So Ed has run high 170's and if he adds another 150hp, another 14-20mph for the extra 320 feet. You are correct that it is an assumption and the air that he has to move to hit 200mph will be huge and he will cover the timing traps in just under a 1/4 second.......Will be a blast

More disinformation..........

Kurt ran 180 , not mid 180s

As he ran no pressure gauge on his bottle, the hp level is unknown to all but God

As the machine, Busamod, has very little testing at a 1/4 mile.......the chances of it hitting an actual 200 are slim, but within the capability of the machine.

Jeff, you and I have talked about the national record situation.  It was my fault that there wasn't two ends of the record reported on. (ET and MPH), not AMSNOW.  The very first post made about the '09 Amsnow Shootout (after the race) mentioned your speed performance.  The article print deadline was the Tuesday following the race.  So............I'll take the black eye on this one as far as the article goes.

FYI, Simons CPR does currently hold the 1/4 mile asphalt speed national record @ 178.5 mph.

You will be at the '10 Amsnow Shootout, unless you're just scared of me beating you. 

when i talked to am snow (mark), he told me that before the race even happened they decided they would not report a mph record if it happened, so i don't see where you would take a (black eye) for it. unless you told them not to report it. i know you didn.t tell them that, so i don't blame you, either way i personally think a sled running almost 180 mph in the 1/4 would be worth a mention. i just think it was a let down to not get the recognition,  i think it pays 2000.00 to win this class and it costs over 2000.00 to go to the race when you look at fuel for the truck, fuel for the sleds, hotel rooms for the crew, meals and beverages for the crew, etc, etc.....so we don't do it for the money,   as for 2010, we'll see, i still haven't seen any official recognition from the amsnow staff on any level, i just get the feeling theres more to it when a public mention is beyond their (amsnows) capability. its really ashame, i can go to union grove and test for about 150.00 a night including maintence parts, and just post the results and the video. i don't know that being  "official" means the same as it once did to me. videos and time slips will tell the story. thats all i really need. jeff  

Not to beat a dead horse, but now you know how I felt when Amsnow totally ignored the Prosled Shootout for 6 years. We'll see if it gets any recognition this year.