Snowmobile Racing

I have about 4 gallons of VP C12 left over from last year in my tank.  Does anyone know how much of the octane I would have lost??  I was just going to drain it, but if I still have 94 or more octane, I may as well keep it?  If anyone has any info or data, I would appreciate it.  I have heard so many different opionions from local yocals, it would be nice to hear from the race guys. Thanks in advance.

 plastic tank or metal tank?? if its a plastic tank get rid of it. metal it will be fine.

 just my opinion with some knowledge, if you're using "good" fuel to begin with I would error on the side of caution,  dump it..also depends how prone your engine is to deto but fuel does lose the light end vapors and octane if it sits to long, again depends on how it was stored but if in a plastic can/tank...its might not be so good and if it's already premixed with oil...some oils break down while mixed more than others...i would just be safe if you question it's quality at all...

If the container was metal and sealed to let no air or sunlight in the fuel would be good for 1 year from the date it was manufacured. Even if it is sealed you would like to limit the temp it is stored in to no more than 70 degrees, the cooler the better. Also, some fuels when going "bad" the specific gravity will actually go up from spec. for that fuel.

How much money do you have in that motor? Is it really worth risking your motor over $30? Throw it in your lawn mower, weed eater, car, whatever. I wouldnt risk ruining some pistons, rings, and cylinder walls.

Oh, the other thing is that some VP fuels use synthetic base stock and they like to absorb water. Plastic containers for storage is a very bad, you will immediately start losing the light end vapors when fuel is stored in plastic and exposed to sunlight. Ever have some mystery blow ups on the second day of racing?

Thanks for all the input guys. I am going to dump it, just to be safe. However, I wanted to show you guys what I got back from VP TECH.  This was their answer to my question, what do you guys think?

"You would never lose octane from the fuel even when it sits.  The first thing you would lose is the light ends of the fuel witch affect upper rpm performance.  The C-12 is very stable, you could leave in your tank for 9 to 10 months with out a problem.  The best way to store the fuel would be to drain the tank back into the metal 5 gallon can it came in or our 15, 30 or 54 gallon drums".

 i'll buy what VP says , been using many different race fuels since the 80's and always seemed not to burn the same after less than 2 months of sitting, weather it be light ends evaporating or octane loss i'm not sure  but again is perhaps best to be safe ? i do know aviation 100LL seems to store for a really long time without changes to performance...JM2cents

Thanks crippledrmk!  Semper-fi

Former 0311 1/1 Camp Horno :)

I was told the same, from VP and Torco. The guy from Torco at the time told me to keep it out of sun light and to keep the can/drum off of the ground. Iv'e had my fuel sit in my tank or my race can for a couple of months and never had and problems

I can tell you that you will not lose the octane, lead doesnt dissolve w/o high heat. But I can tell you this, go get some C14+ put it in a 5 gallon plastic container mix it up and put it in your race sled and leave the container in your trailer and use it for a few weekends and see how long that motor lasts.

Although I'm not using VP Fuel but instead, Torco 110, your saying that this mixed Torco 110 that I have in my garage, in a plastic 5 gal. can, that I've had since last winter, shouldn't be used for my field testing this fall before I get some fresh race fuel for this winters' snow drag season ? I'm wondering why, if the octane levels don't drop with storage time, then what may cause my motor to blow by using this older fuel if octane levels are still high enough to prevent detonation with my compression and timing ? Also, I did some test passes last weekend on the grass in a field, and heard slight stuttering at high rpm (9500-9700rpm). Could this be caused by this old fuel or was it just some plugs starting to misfire and need to be changed ?

Any info. appreciated !

Limskii I don't think it would have been the fuel. You had stutter right off the line and all the way through your run. I had some fuel in my plastic container from the winter and used it on the grass, this container was in my trailer from say Feb till July, I did not have any problems.  Would you not be able to pick up a problem with the egt's?  Iceman could it be that you might of had water in the fuel?.. (condensation) Not too sure about the 14+. we have a buddy that's running that in his cat, it would be nice to know before he starts some testing. I know he has had the 14+ in a plastic can for more then a couple of weekends and has had no problems.

DETO!!!!

ZEEKMAN#37:

DETO!!!!

That's what I'm saying, I think you would see that on you egt's

Torco lasts longer than VP 14+  ALso, look at the specific gravity of a fuel. Anything under .700 is a very volatile fuel with the light end vapors evaporating first. This is what gives the fuel its power, there are also other additives in that molecular chain that can aid in lubrication, combustion, oxy carrying properties, detonation-pre ignition aid.

Your engines state of modification also will be a determining factor on how long it will live on a fuel. I had a 440 Pro Stock motor that made 122hp that ran great on VP 14+ the first weekend, good on the second, and bye-bye motor the third if kept in plastic 5 gal in the trailer. Earlier this year I helped a team that had mystery blow detonation and pre-ignition problems. It turned out to be day 3 of race weekend and fuel in a plastic container sitting on an open place trailer in 80+ temps.

The best thing to do is mix in 1-2 gallon plastic and use for the day and discard it in your manner. Storage should be in steel container in cool, dry, out of sunlight, tipped so  fuel comes to the cap. If it leaks you know it is not air tight and seek an air tight container. Fuel is pretty cheap when compared to replacing a set of pistons, rings, nikasil,

machz69x:

ZEEKMAN#37:

DETO!!!!

That's what I'm saying, I think you would see that on you egt's

Oxygen. Does oxygen show up cold temp or hot temp on an egt?  If you have high quality fast acting egts, which by the way  do not act quick enough and are only the average of the temps over a period of time,  you will actually see a DECREASE in temp just before she goes south. Conversely, you can be too right and have unburned fuel being detonated in the exhaust port or head pipe which will cause egt to.............INCREASE. Have been at a dyno test that egts hit 2300

This is some good info,Your right about the temps being low, I had motor run very low temps, but i could hear it detonating on the run, I was like what was that?.. just before she went down, The heat was staying all in the motor and nothing in the pipe, but I did not have the right fuel for my application. If I had the proper fuel I'm sure I would have had the time before she let go. The first run on my machine now, the jet size was only off by a 100 pts (error)..lol.. I could hear it for say the first 100-200'.. the temps were down, so I let off and gave it full choke, Now I'm sure if the fuel was border line for my application she would have blown. I'm not sure of what you have for squish,compression and timing, but you may just on the edge of what your motor needs to survive, and when it looses a point or two, boom.. I don't really know enough abut the fuel thing. I know I did run the same fuel in the winter for 660' as I do for 500' grass and had no problems at all, kept a close eye on the pistons.