Snowmobile Racing

Whatever was done to the Crossfire couldn't have been done by someone at Big Moose. If you look at their past record, they have a habit of making sled's go slower!

 

PPR516:

First I just want to say that I do not regret doing what was done. ..... I thought this is a way to make AC look good no matter what sleds faster. (Z1 or CFR1000)  I would like to say that cheating is such a bad choice of words, I didn't cheat the competition, I was the competition.

 

First and foremost, Big Moose should be suspended from competition for at least ONE YEAR. Or not asked back at all.  It is cheating. Cheating every single person  who attended, every person who subscribes, and cheating every person contemplating a New Arctic Cat.  Everyone here knows I am green through and through. This is incomprehensable.  Its also arrogant. "I was the competition"? Please.   What about the guy who, after this event, laid down the big cheese for a new sled that didn't perform ANYWHERE near what this one did?  Are YOU gonna make sure it does?

An event such as this does not have any place for cheaters. For some, this event determines the model they select for the season.  In which case, you just opened your company, and Arctic Cat, being one of their authorized dealers,  to fraudulent advertising claims.     Nice work.

 BIG BLOCK, THATS A GOOD ONE!

PPR516:

First I just want to say that I do not regret doing what was done. Kirsh said it, the ski-doo and polaris shops have cheated for years and I just played their game. For years we have been participating in an event that was ours to loose. All the time and money that Phil and Jon put into this, for one award, that was always going to be "won" in ski-doo country. Not to mention the 800 polaris that did a wheel stand, that everyone is talking about,  that was caused by pre-stock run tinkering. Now we got a new mag and new awards. Amsnow made it fun again to participate. George and Jim called us at the last minute and said we were running an F6 and a cfr 800 against the rest of them and our Z1 and Cfr1000 in an exhabition class all by ourselves. I thought this is a way to make AC look good no matter what sleds faster. (Z1 or CFR1000)  I would like to say that cheating is such a bad choice of words, I didn't cheat the competition, I was the competition.

 

 

 

How the heck does Arctic Cat look good in this? Thery are forever attched to the guys caught cheating  and calling it a stocker, whether it's an exhibition run or not.  Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Too brag about it is even more arrogant, let alone stupid. If I have to stand over the sleds next year and babysit for the whole time I'm there, that's what I'm going to do. I have caught guys in the past trying too add different CDI boxes. I thought with the new tweaks to the program, tech could be a bit more relaxed this year. I guess I was wrong! Give a guy an inch and he takes a mile. I should have known. I have been involved in racing far too long to trust ANYBODY. No matter what your reputation is as a racer or dealer. I will have the printed rules in my hand next year with either a camera or I will video my assigned team for the whole time the sled isn't lined up in staging. I agree the hoods should be sealed once they leave the dyno and that seal can only be broken in front of the assigned tech guy. Then that tech person has to stand in that assigned pit for the whole day even after that team leaves the pit area for the staging lanes. If Jim decides that we have to treat people like little kids, then that's what I will be prepared to do. I want the Arctic Cat team to run well  because they are fast sleds, not because somebody pulled a fast one. I actually enjoy catching people cheating during tech, it makes me feel like I'm doing my job. Obviously I didn't do a good job this year.

 I've always wondered this about cheating to win. Isn't it a hallow victory?  I never understood how you could feel good about acting like your sled was stock when in fact it's modified. My favorite thing some guys I used to ride with would put 600cc stickers on a ZRT 800 or a thundercat. Then they would be all pumped up about being fast. It was a joke!!!

SOMEBODY EXPLAIN TO ME HERE HONESTLY THE DEFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT HAPPEN HERE AND LETTING FIRECATS RUN IN STOCK CLASSES AT THE GRASS DRAGS WITH 500 F,T, RACE BOX, TIMING KEYS, AND MODIFIED ''' Y '' PIPES. !!! 3:16 (yammie tony)

 Tony I think if you run the trail class in cosdra you can't make those mods. I may be wrong. however if you run the proside you can make any change to the sled you want as long as the owners manual says those are factor settings. That's the way I've always understood it.

 

looneytune:

PPR516:

First I just want to say that I do not regret doing what was done. Kirsh said it, the ski-doo and polaris shops have cheated for years and I just played their game. For years we have been participating in an event that was ours to loose. All the time and money that Phil and Jon put into this, for one award, that was always going to be "won" in ski-doo country. Not to mention the 800 polaris that did a wheel stand, that everyone is talking about,  that was caused by pre-stock run tinkering. Now we got a new mag and new awards. Amsnow made it fun again to participate. George and Jim called us at the last minute and said we were running an F6 and a cfr 800 against the rest of them and our Z1 and Cfr1000 in an exhabition class all by ourselves. I thought this is a way to make AC look good no matter what sleds faster. (Z1 or CFR1000)  I would like to say that cheating is such a bad choice of words, I didn't cheat the competition, I was the competition.

 

 

 

How the heck does Arctic Cat look good in this? Thery are forever attched to the guys caught cheating  and calling it a stocker, whether it's an exhibition run or not.  Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Too brag about it is even more arrogant, let alone stupid. If I have to stand over the sleds next year and babysit for the whole time I'm there, that's what I'm going to do. I have caught guys in the past trying too add different CDI boxes. I thought with the new tweaks to the program, tech could be a bit more relaxed this year. I guess I was wrong! Give a guy an inch and he takes a mile. I should have known. I have been involved in racing far too long to trust ANYBODY. No matter what your reputation is as a racer or dealer. I will have the printed rules in my hand next year with either a camera or I will video my assigned team for the whole time the sled isn't lined up in staging. I agree the hoods should be sealed once they leave the dyno and that seal can only be broken in front of the assigned tech guy. Then that tech person has to stand in that assigned pit for the whole day even after that team leaves the pit area for the staging lanes. If Jim decides that we have to treat people like little kids, then that's what I will be prepared to do. I want the Arctic Cat team to run well  because they are fast sleds, not because somebody pulled a fast one. I actually enjoy catching people cheating during tech, it makes me feel like I'm doing my job. Obviously I didn't do a good job this year.

Bill don't think you didn't do a good job. If someone wants to cheat you better be ready to do a complete tear down and have the appropriate gages and test equipment to detect it.  Jim C puts his all into this and at best he can hope that everyone plays fair. This is nothing new at the Shoot-Out. It has been happening for years. Just look at some of the numbers from previous years. Performance sells sleds, however when you see how the sleds run after you buy them it is disappointing. The event is  great with a lot of people putting in effort to get it off the ground. Whats done is done and now everyone knows what happened. What goes around comes around and you can read the start of it here. You guys keep up the good work and lets look forward to the next Shoot- Out. Jim

J I KNOW THAT, BUT YOU RACE ALOT, AND I KNOW YOU HAVE SEEN THE DEFFERENCE BETWEEN  A TRAIL FIRECAT AND A RACE ONE.  HERE IS A TEST FOR YA, GO RACE A 100 % STOCK 1000 cc CROSSFIRE AGAINST THE ONE THEY USED HERE, THIS IS MY POINT. 3:16 (yammie tony)

now just because i am italian dose not mean i just fall off the banana boat !!!!!!!! think that manual says anything about a modified exhaust. !!!

C

YAMMIEGOD3:16:

SOMEBODY EXPLAIN TO ME HERE HONESTLY THE DEFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT HAPPEN HERE AND LETTING FIRECATS RUN IN STOCK CLASSES AT THE GRASS DRAGS WITH 500 F,T, RACE BOX, TIMING KEYS, AND MODIFIED ''' Y '' PIPES. !!! 3:16 (yammie tony)

You can't run a Y pipe in a stock class, however you can add timming keys, and change jetting in any brand, which the race box does on the EFI sleds

OK GREAT ANSWER !! lol/ RUN A 100 % STOCK FIRECAT AGAINST ONE WITH THE 500 F.T. RACE BOX, PIPE MOD, AND TIMIMG KEY. SECOND TIME THATS MY POINT. WHAT YA FIGURE , 10 SLED  LENTGH DEFFERENCE ? 3:16 (yammie tony)

May be. Now take one of those 5.5 second SRX's that run in the grass against a 100% stock SRX. 15 sled length difference?????????

BOTTOM LINE STOCK IS STOCK, AND THE SLED WAS PORTRAYED AS STOCK.

SO WHEN YOU SELL ONE OF THESE THINGS AND IT DOESN'T RUN LIKE THE ONE YOU BROUGHT THERE, THEN WHAT??

"OH, THAT MUST HAVE BEEN A SPECIAL ONE WE HAD AT THE SHOOTOUT, SO FOR ANOTHER $2000 WE CAN MAKE IT LIKE THAT ONE"

BTW, A WHEEL STAND SLOWS YOU DOWN A LITTLE-RIGHT??

Doc, be careful what you wish for.  The time and money spent by Big Moose every year on this will never be matched by any other shop. They bring two manufacturers.  There is basically NO RETURN ON INVESTMENT for this shop doing this, they lay out thousands in time and sleds for us to beat on each year. The only one who benefits are the manufactures and they give us nothing to help get it done. Shops aren't lining up for a chance to get involved, but rather hanging on to there shorts trying to stay in business.  Not one single shop is innocent of alterning the sleds for this event now or in any year.  Vince is a kid and works his *** off for this event and was under the impression the X-Fire was an exibition run only and he should make it fly.  Now everyone knows what the X-Fire is capable of with very little altered, so they can either call Vince or try to beat it. 

The Intimidator:

May be. Now take one of those 5.5 second SRX's that run in the grass against a 100% stock SRX. 15 sled length difference?????????

 

 NOT FAST ENOUGH TO BEAT THE FIRECATS THAT GO 5.3,s !!!!! AIN,T IT FUNNY A '' STOCK '' OUT OF THE CRATE 2001 SRX STILL IS THE FASTEST  '' LEGAL '' SLED EVER TO RUN AT THIS EVENT. REALLY ONE HAS TO WONDER IF YAMAHA HAD MADE THE SRX A EFI, YOU THAN COULD BY A 500 F.T. RACE ECU AND PICK UP TEN SLEDS LIKE THE FIRECAT. NEVER THOUGHT  JETING  WOULD GIVE YA 10 SLEDS. lol!!  3:16 (yammie tony)

The Crossfire R 1000 results will not be used in the magazine or officially posted by AmSnow. I've spoken with my contacts at Arctic Cat and this is acceptable to them.

I greatly appreciate all the work EVERYONE puts into this event every year. Let's all stay positive and focus on next year. If anyone has comments, questions, concerns, etc. you can email me directly or call me.

mboncher@amsnow.com, 262-798-6453

Take care all,

Mark

 

speedyerv:

Doc, be careful what you wish for.  The time and money spent by Big Moose every year on this will never be matched by any other shop. They bring two manufacturers.  There is basically NO RETURN ON INVESTMENT for this shop doing this, they lay out thousands in time and sleds for us to beat on each year. The only one who benefits are the manufactures and they give us nothing to help get it done. Shops aren't lining up for a chance to get involved, but rather hanging on to there shorts trying to stay in business.  Not one single shop is innocent of alterning the sleds for this event now or in any year.  Vince is a kid and works his *** off for this event and was under the impression the X-Fire was an exibition run only and he should make it fly.  Now everyone knows what the X-Fire is capable of with very little altered, so they can either call Vince or try to beat it. 

 Well said... And it hasn't even been determined or disclosed what was done. Everyone is making assumptions based on hearsay and not facts. There is no data to compare this to... The only way to recoup this is to duplicate the run on a vrigin stock machine.

If you are racing yourself, is it technically cheating? Especially when a consumer buys a sled and it can be prepped the same way by the dealer at uncrating anyhow? I'm on the fence but I think Vince is an OK guy, he should have just saved his experiment the the dealer prep run.

mbarryracing. 1st ever post and you "think Vince is ok"? You have to earn your stripes on here, my friend. I think "Vince stepped on his #&*%" with this stunt. And if A/C has any nuggets, they'll find a new dealer to rep them next year. Cheating is cheating. With over 1300 views already, I think he's probably wishing he'd been....HONEST!

1150 BM REV:

mbarryracing. 1st ever post and you "think Vince is ok"? You have to earn your stripes on here, my friend. I think "Vince stepped on his #&*%" with this stunt. And if A/C has any nuggets, they'll find a new dealer to rep them next year. Cheating is cheating. With over 1300 views already, I think he's probably wishing he'd been....HONEST!

 This is true, I acknowledge that. I meant to say I think he is an OK guy from the little I have talked to him and associated with him, and I'm not even an AC guy...  I didn't mean to imply it was OK for him to shmooze everyone, please forgive me. I agree it doesn't look good for him at ALL and it's evident it's pissed a ton a people off.

But, please enlighten us on exactly what he did? You don't know do you... Farfetched as it sounds, what if he didn't do anything outside of stock? Your hanging him before he's tried... and I don't agree with that one bit. I am NOT saying that he didn't or he's NOT guilty, I am just saying you wouldn't like me calling you a cheater at a race having you get your 1500 DQ'd without ever being tech'd, now would you?

Assumption is the mother of all F'up's... be careful. No doubt the truth will come out and repercussions accordingly.

YAMMIEGOD3:16:

J I KNOW THAT, BUT YOU RACE ALOT, AND I KNOW YOU HAVE SEEN THE DEFFERENCE BETWEEN  A TRAIL FIRECAT AND A RACE ONE.  HERE IS A TEST FOR YA, GO RACE A 100 % STOCK 1000 cc CROSSFIRE AGAINST THE ONE THEY USED HERE, THIS IS MY POINT. 3:16 (yammie tony)

now just because i am italian dose not mean i just fall off the banana boat !!!!!!!! think that manual says anything about a modified exhaust. !!!

 

 

 

I agree there is a night and day difference between a stock f7 adn a race prepped one.

 

As Far as the race srx verse a trail srx the biggest issue Yamaha has with the SRX was the hole shot. When you run them on Grass with a speed track and chizzels it's not an issue. The Poraction Chassis was the worst snow chassis for trail sled racing ever. The race was lost in the first 60 feet everytime. Like I already said a speed track and Chizzles cures that.