Snowmobile Racing

 Exactly Ron, That is something I doubt the track wants to do that is why I said for a racer who wants a different class to take the bull by the horns and sponsor it.

I remember when this race started there were three classes. 

Heads up

bracket

porch

I am not fast enough to run heads up. I cannot beat you. I did not want to sit on the porch thats no fun so I ran what was left for me the bracket class. This is for the guys who feel they cannot win a headsup and still want to race. I fall in this class as do most others. 

Ron, I agree that it comes down to the majority but so far the majority has only been 2 to 1.  I would love to hear more input from other twin owners.  I know there are quite a few out there.  I really don't care, I would just like to see the twins stay in the game.  I'm just not a power adder kind of guy.  I like sqeezing every once of power out of the motor that I can, and reflect it in the E.T.  When we snox raced it was all about the holeshot, your best against everybody else's.  Do your homework, figure out the best clutch and gear combo for the conditions and beat them out of the hole.  It's kind of like NASCAR, equal playing field, an occaisional cheater, but keeps you up at night thinking about the best set up.  I'm sure you guys love racing me in the brackets at ESTA because i'm always changing things to try and go faster.  Doesn't far well for dialing in, but thats where I get my fun.  Looking forward to actually getting out early this year as the sled is almost ready, made alot more changes and can't wait to try them.  Unlike every year prior when I make it out the week before the shootout at best.  Lets go racing.

all we ran last year jim was the bracket race !    definatly a lot less hectic....lol

i think the most important thing right now for the race is to get sponsers to step up to the plate like jim said......

jim , those two classes were all it was looking like this year till sponsers started  commiting.

excluding the porch, 

Im with eric here, i have a big bore twin and want to race in the heads up class but I do not want to run a power adder.  Simply because of cost, its just not affordable for me right now.  Im not against Nitrous I just cant swing the added cost these days.  If i could buy the $1200 basic nitrous kit then the next guy will have a 2 stage $2400 kit, now im no longer competitive.  I would rather run motor alone and concentrate on getting the power out my engine, and not deal with the nitrous.  Its more fun for me!  Any one getting into the sport with there stock or trail mod sled could then be competitive in a heads up class.  We all know who the twin guys are and im sure wewill all race wether it padder or motor alone but how can we make the class inviting to other snowmobilers

Another approach.

PRE-REGISTER a field of 16, that 1600 Find a $400 sponsor . Should be pretty easy

Or 8 @ 100 for $1000., only $200. even easier

The key would be Pre-registering. By say...6-12-09

If there is the call for it, the pre-registration should be an easy thing for everyone to insure participation, and purse.

IF Vern is receptive,   I can help him set up a Paypal account to make life easy on everyone.

thats what bob had um do at motor city ,   it worked  .

i think vern likes the anything goes class  , wether it be a twin or tripple  ,  just safety !  incidently , alot of the pro-stock 1000 guys can run right with most p-adder open sleds !  

 The problem here is that turbo systems have evolved in recent years, but n2o systems on two strokes haven't been able to keep up on my dyno, HP-wise, if you call 330 plus not keeping up!

D&D's 1200 two stroke twin with that big garrett ball bearing turbo can make 200hp more than when it was maxed out with n2o. It can also match or exceed the HP of the most powerful 4 cyl Yamaha four stroke turbos.

But then a Z1 four stroke twin w/ bigger turbo may not be able to make the HP of the same size two stroke turbo twin. D&D / Glenn Hall is coming to dyno the stock Z1 with bigger turbo/ intercooler etc next week so we may know then.

So if the biggest twins with n2o are limited to, say, 330hp and the turbo two stroke twins can make 530hp then the n2o twin guys have a good argument for trying to create a different class.

ron2o's idea of having big twin power adder guys pick one class seems to make some sense. If Glenn's heavy Z1 big turbo taps out at, say, 350 hp then there should be anything wrong with it competing against lighter 300-330hp n2o twins.

Jim just confirmed what I said earlier.  How many of you can throw down 330 HP on NOS.  If I remember that 1200 dynoed at 234 hp on the motor which means a 100 hp shot of nitrous.  I heard them say they might be able to go more.  This gets back to the big dollar.  I guess thats part of racing, we shouldn't complain about it.  The people that invest all of their time, money and effort to dominate a sport like this deserve to win.  Thats what makes everyone to strive and be better.  Thats why I continue to think an all motor class would be a great entry level class to help promote the sport and hopefully spark the interest of the OEM's.  According to Mike Key, even Dale Roes said it would be a good competitive class.  I know that big bore kits ain't cheap either but alot of people have already been buying them up.  Start playing with more than the conservative shot of nitrous for those like me who don't know alot about it, and as Stan said in the Factory Hot Rod Post, "go ahead and see how that works out". 

There I go lobbying again, I'm starting to feel like a dirty politician LOL.  As you can see by my total post, I'm not a keyboard junkie, I can't stand pecking on the damn thing.  I've had more post this week then the last few years so obviously this has inspired me.  I am a faithful reader though.   I gain more knowledge on this site than any other form of publication and thank everyone on here for that.

I can get, and have approval from my snowmobile club to sponsor 250.00 for a twin class....anyone want to match it? I can get the check to Vern this coming week

I say like Ron suggests....believe it or not there are plenty of N/A twins that can take out a n2o assisted sled....that shows in the open power adder class as we speak!    example would be a 1200 with n2o vs a 1000cc  and the 1000 is faster or gets a better 60 or whatever

let me know

Ron,

Try telling a Pro Stock guy that his sled will be competative in power adder. Hammer, A2Z, Rich, are really the only ones that come...Chuck and Ed run a PS in all 3 classes.

Vince

REMEMBER !        BESIDES THE BRACKET CLASS ,    there are only two maybe three classes left ,

open power adder is a given

1000 pro-stock is rich's baby  and a given

if , and thats a big if ,  there is another one heads up,it depends on the sponsers  ,  there wont and cant be a heads up class for every style size type sled ,    a twin class seeing as how they are the majority of whats comming off the assembly line these days makes the most sence .

i dont see a natural and unatural twin class both,  an   open anything goes twin makes the most sence, because its open to anything ,    natural asp.  classes can be just as controversial ,  800 vs  1200's then you revert back to class's ,  open means just that ,   if the twin class is a go i believe it will be an open class with adder , like open adder,   but if you guys can gather up enough sponsers for a nat twin , im sure vern will listen. ! 

interest/sponsers/entries       is what makes a race

Big Thanks to Dave Wahl back on as a major sponsor. Will post web & phone soon its late. Guys I have an 800 twin & would love to run it bet it will go low 9's (the hillclimb sled) but we need at least 12 guys committed for an all mtr & Nos can run the Nos class. If 12 guys commit we can beat up sponsors again. Bottom line is its been run 2 or 3 yrs & gone downhill we cannot take money from other classes for 6 twins in this economy.

Rich Daly

I have 250.00 for a twin class, care of Camillus Snowmobile Club...it would be nice to see someone match this and make it more worthwhile

Brad you obviously have never run NOS or NOS on a twin so best you dont coment on it as it is comical to read. I do beleive an all motor twin can compete with a NOS sled and that was proven when Dead1Dave did very well the first year of the class. It will come down to choose your poison and it has been seen time and time again the inconsistency and what can happen with power adders that is racing.... remember Simon CPR turbo at Martin I do.

I think just offer up what ever is collected as the purse with no guaranty unless you have a certain amount of entries this way it is not a loss and gives the twin guys a chance to show they want the class by showing up. Lets just see how many want to run just motor compared to power adder and let the majority dictate what it could be next year if it is at all with whatever whoever shows. At least this keeps the class alive and IMO if the amount of twin NOS sleds I know of all show coupled with the all motor guys it could be a decent field. To many rules is what ruins racing keep it as it was created.

ptm

i HAVE ran nos before on another sled, i would love to run it on my sled this year but to purchase and install the system and the added cost it brings it would cut into my budget to deep.  I would have to cut back 20% of my trips to the track in order to afford nitrous.  I want to run nitrous, but i am fine with running all motor.  whatever the decision may be ill just have to conform to it.

trailguy:

Big Thanks to Dave Wahl back on as a major sponsor. Will post web & phone soon its late. Guys I have an 800 twin & would love to run it bet it will go low 9's (the hillclimb sled) but we need at least 12 guys committed for an all mtr & Nos can run the Nos class. If 12 guys commit we can beat up sponsors again. Bottom line is its been run 2 or 3 yrs & gone downhill we cannot take money from other classes for 6 twins in this economy.

Rich Daly

Rich, if I'm reading your post correctly, you are saying all motor twin class and the NOS guys would run in the already set power adder class or are you saying two seperate twin classes.  If its all motor twin count me in.  I would pre-register for that like shock Doc said. 

Eric Dousharm

wow! 

what rich is saying ,  is ,   anything power adder will have to run in open power adder ,   as far as all motor twin ,   there needs to be a commitment of some sort for this class,  without the commitment , no twin class ,  and vern was very sceptical today on getting that commitment for an all motor twin class ....sorry 2o twin guys ,   twin heads up power adder entries last season werent enough , looks like they may give all motor twin a chance given the commitment.....as per rich ,  dont shoot the messanger  ,"ME"  ,,,,,,,,

classes to date:

open p-adder

open all motor

pro-stock 1000

big bracket

vern ,  need some type of clarification on the clutch tech deal i talked to you about after talking to pete,  as it may pertain to this race,  via , e-mail   or at track ,  like i said , not available commercialy ,  must be fabbed ,  belting should be enough IMO ,  BUT , thech's call

Interesting Ron and not shooting you. So you have Rich with one sled and two others whom I think never competed in and supported the twin class for the past 2 years at both races - ESTA and Martin -dictating the class and how it is run based on a number of entries???????Since we had 6 NOS sleds last year how does the 3 sleds who never competed make it the new possible class??????NOS twins to compete with AMA sleds hahahaha that a good one. I think I rather compete against 1 Glen Hall turbo then a whole field of AMA and huge triple power adders.

ptm

Rich, maybe you should start a new post for twin all motor @ ESTA roll call.  I think this post has gone a stray and probably lost interest of some.  You may be able to get a better idea if anyone else is interested in this as time is running out.  I would do it but I guess racing in the brackets at the shootout since 2004 isn't support enough to have a voice.  Thanks for taking this over and helping Vern keep the shootout alive.  Either way, I will always show up for the brackets because I enjoy it way too much.

Eric Dousharm